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Sparks fly between advisers
Friday 18th of April 2008
This week I have been fascinated by the goings on in the advisory industry, and some of the things that make it look silly.
It started with a statement from Commerce Minister Lianne Dalziel that the government was working with the Institute of Chartered Accountants to provide free advice to Blue Chip clients.
I say good on both parties for doing this. I wish they could have done it earlier as it seems to me that many are preying on these Blue Chip "victims" and making money from their unfortunate situation.
The obvious question the ICANZ/Govt release raised was how come the Institute of Financial Advisers wasn't selected as the partner? I don't know the answer to this question, however its release the following day seemed to suggest they were in catch up mode.
But the story hasn't stopped there. None other than Chris Lee has added fuel to this little fire turning it to bonfire status.
In yesterday's newsletter he ripped into the minister castigating her for supporting the IFA (when in fact it was the ICANZ she did a deal with). He says "minister Leanne (sic) Dalziel (is) urging investors to get their advice only from the very same groups who have so often misled investors."
"Dalziel has consistently opted for the lazy solution, the one that will seem clean and tidy, and she has done so again in urging investors to go to the members of a selling group (in this case the IFA) as their means of obtaining good financial information or advice.
"I will demonstrate in a minute why such a suggestion is lazy, facile and incorrect."
He goes on to say that Dalziel thinks that "pretending that membership of a selling group, and reciting of academic mantra, is the certification of competence that an investor should seek to avoid problems"
I have no problem with what Lee says about good advice, but he then launches into major criticism of various people which is factually incorrect in places, has incorrect name spellings and is vitriolic.
I am in no way going to pass judgment on the named persons as it is unhelpful. Yes some of them have chequered careers. Some may have made poor decisions. But what is the point of tarring the whole advisory industry with the work of 10 individuals. Sure Lee does give some credit to other advisers (some IFA members, some not).
He also is critical of the process that led to some of these people winning Financial Planner of the Year Awards. As the organiser of these awards I can assure you the process was rigorous. I give these people credit for coming forward and being prepared to be judged on their work.
One of the named people - Mike Shaw (who has been having an on-going battle with Lee) - made his position clear:
This is part of his email: "Having read Chris Lee's latest Taking Stock, I hereby nominate Chris Lee for the position of President of the Marxist Financial Advisers Union. This is the Union for Advisers who think they are too good to be members of every other professional financial advisory organisation in New Zealand. The bully Chris Lee has yet again thrown his considerable weight and ego around the confines of the email margins.
As usual his research has got it wrong. Shaw has never been or aspired to hold the privileged position of President of any IFA chapter. Nor has Shaw ever had the wish or inclination to follow in Lee's footsteps and appoint himself baron of any kind of New Zealand territorial financial advisory fiefdom.
Lee referred to his departure from General Finance in 1985. I wonder whether the door hit him on his ample behind on the way out or the back of the head resulting in convenient memory loss. It seems Lee has forgotten the reason he left. As this happened some 23 years ago it seems irrelevant to some, but for those there or near at the time I guess it is hard to let go.
Lee talks a lot about no research or ratings for Bridgecorp. Has he conveniently forgotten the two favourable rating reports prepared by Ron Keene of Rapid Ratings latterly Axis Ratings? Has Lee also conveniently forgotten about the favourable Morningstar ratings reports for the ING funds?
Is Lee asking for these reports to be ignored and passed into irrelevance?
Lee also accuses Shaw of being out to discredit him. Shaw's view is that Lee is doing a fine job of that himself. What Shaw is merely doing is asking Lee some questions which Lee has extreme difficulty in answering so Lee reverts back to his usual tactics of being the school yard bully.
Comments (6)
Mike King
Just going back to Wise Planning & the $1,265 +GST per hour fee. I do recommend his website...for a laugh. Anyone can say what they'll CHARGE - the key is how much people will PAY, of course. One has to wonder how many clients have taken the 3 year "Gold" package, at $18,950 + GST?
Perusing the other remuneration sources pages in the Disclosure Statement, imakes it utterly clear that the commssion & brokerage income from product sales would provide somehwere between 30% & 80% of his stated "packages" costs.
Given that I provide most of the services Wise Planning states it can charge an annual fee for - starting at $5,620 + GST - clearly, I'm a total mug. Oh well...happy clients who have confidence in their adviser is probably a more robust long-term model than a flashy set of fees, and likely unhappy punters.
How unhappy? Well, if you'd paid $5,620 + GST to be "coached", and then found that the $50K in Bridgecorp had been halved (or worse), AND the adviser had earned a 1% p.a. fee for the placement...well, ask yourself.
I've come across this outfit from time to time over the years, but only ever met one "client" who had purchased a package . This client was struggling to pay the monthly $120 (around 10 years ago...the current fee structure certainly reflects inflation). He was, unfortunately, a long-term ACC claimant at the time.
While practices such as Wise Planning have an appearance of professionalism & respectability, it is a veneer oh-so-thin.
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16 years ago
David Pine
Chris Lee reminds me of a favourite saying of my late Mother's:
"Empty vessels make the most noise".
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16 years ago
Mike King
Oops - it was Fitch (not S&P)
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16 years ago
Mike King
Mr Lee has gone to print again, re Hanover. Clearly, HE knows BETTER than anyone else (e.g. Red Dog) though I note that he is not yet prepared to re-rate Hanover at this time (despite Fitch's apparent confidence).
Ouch! I WAS going to copy part of today's e-mail "Taking Stock" but the copyright apparently does not allow fair use, even with source acknowledgement. Pity...still a few selected quotes might be overlooked by the high court?
" Hanover has never been top shelf, but it has survived the last, difficult, 12 months – uncomfortably, but without failing to meet its obligations."
"But Hanover deserves some credit. It did not lend to absurd multiples of its capital (as Lombard did); it was never managed stupidly (as Bridgecorp, Capital Merchant and others were); it never paid double brokerage; and it did get itself externally rated, even if its grading is one pip below investment grade."
"Hanover has suffered from a series of rumours and innuendo, often in those appallingly supervised vacuous website forums where public bar louts practise their belching to the accompanying sniggers of other juveniles who find comfort in this sort of crassness."
(Guess he means us...)
"Happily the adult population by-passes this so the worst of the malicious and meaningless innuendo gains no currency, leaving Hanover to focus on real issues."
"A less resilient company might have found this flow of rumours too damaging to survive. Happily the adults in the industry checks out rumours before publishing them."
"Clearly Fitch has optimism.
I hope to resume our rating of Hanover later this year."
Do I sense a small sigh of relief?
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16 years ago
Mike King
Mr. Lee should be extremely cautious. No one is completely without fault. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" comes to mind.
An interesting change arose on his website recently - the total disappearance of Hanover Finance...and a day or so later a note was added stating "Please note until further notice we are not in a position to accurately rate Hanover/United/Fai." Why not? S&P just reconfirmed its rating? But then, he has already shown that he has little confidence in any rating company (possibly with some justification).
Still, the obvious question arises - what of his existing investors with holdings in Hanover, made on his recommendation? If Hanover IS in a tenuous situation, AND Mr. Lee pulls his "rating", might he not be seen to have been influential in whatever happens to Hanover next? A massive drop in re-investment can severly strain even a sound, strong finance company, let alone utterly sink a more fragile one.
Will he repeat his offer made ot his Provincial clients? How deep ARE his pockets?
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16 years ago
Philip Macalister
Thanks Barrington
A key point I was making is that the minister did not endorse the IFA (as Chris said). Rather she backed ICANZ.
That in itself is a move which must make advisers wonder about the merits or otherwise of the various associations. (Also it was a point I didn't intend to dwell on until Chris wrote his newsletter).
Chris hung his argument on an incorrect statement.
He was saying the minister was mad to back the IFA. Well she didn't so therefore his premise is flawed.
Two points worth picking up on - and useful ones - are these:
Did these advisers put money with the "good finance companies" such as UDC, Marac and SCF? Well we don't know. Something worth looking into.
Secondly, ratings are over-rated and misunderstood. We have heard a story that Bridgecorp paid something like $20 K for its AAA rating which if true is a terrible indicment on the so-called rater. My views on this are well-known.
It has become clear that advisers didn't do enough research on finance companies, and it also seems that they still don't do enough.
The issue of how and why money is allocated to various investments is fascinating. To add a new element to it, we understand ING (or its partners) were telling advisers they could allocate 30% of a client's portfolio to the (now-closed) DYF. That should get people going!
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16 years ago
2 min read