Insurance

Govt should regulate commissions: Naylor

Tuesday 4th of June 2013

It comes after Tony Vidler, of Strictly Biz, said there was a strong perception among consumers and other professionals that advisers were not independent because of relationships they had with providers.

He said there were concerns that advisers all had an inherent bias.  “We have to accept that perception is a reality even if we don’t agree with it.”

Naylor said New Zealand had one of the lowest rates of independent financial advisers, per capita, in the world.

He said there was a real problem with the way insurance commissions are distributed.

Naylor said risk advisers were caught in a catch 22, where if they charged what their advice was worth, no one would want to pay it.

New Zealand insurance commission structures were out of line with the rest of the world and had increased over the past two decades, he said.

Typically, advisers would get twice the annual premium back on the initial sale, and no ongoing commission. “That gives an incentive to sell and then to churn.”

Most other countries paid a quarter of annual premium upfront and then a lot more as trail.

Naylor said all the insurance companies accepted their current commission structure was not a good model but none wanted to be the first to do something about it.

“It needs the Government to come in and say ‘these are the rules’. The companies would be quite happy about that. No one in the industry thinks the current commission structure is a sound way to do things.”

Vidler said regulation was not necessary. “It’s an issue of education more than anything else.”

He said existing regulation helped increase transparency but it was still optional to a degree. “It’s not applied evenly across the market… there is still a large proportion of the RFA world that doesn’t disclose in a fully transparent way, as the rest of the RFAs are. That creates an imbalance, which drives the perception [of a lack of independence].

He said if there was a simple regime that applied unilaterally there would be no room for doubt.

Comments (17)
Ray Storey
So I take it Tony, renewal based commission is OK, it's up front commission that's 'bad', not commission itself? Why is there a preoccupation with what my wholesale cost is, but not with that of any other professional? Surely if renewal based commission were the only option, the same lack of independence argument could still be made? Maybe commission isn't the demon after all.
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11 years ago

Broker Broker
Blah blah blah... If it ain't broke don't fix it...
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11 years ago

Regan Thomas
Not sure about Tony's point. Independence how? One could be "non-aligned" but still be considered biased simply because of the presence of commission. One could remove commissions and charge a fee but still have a pet favourite company or product - still not completely independent. My accountant may charge a fee for their advice; and he might decide he prefers Xero to MYOB for reasons not to do with me or my interests, rather based on experience and service and function and fit with his business/process/ideals. Does that make his Xero recommendation "independent"? Like the lawyer, the GP, the Accountant the most important thing is trust. It matters not how we are paid, or even how much. Being able to demonstrate that the client's best interests are at the core of everything is what matters. Furthermore the other adviser clients are working with just want to know thy whys and hows of it all. Include them. That overcomes perceptions of bias, and lack of trust. Dr Naylor makes a good point that fee based rem on insurance, would, for most advisers, fail to yield what our advice is really worth. However his point that most life policies 200% up front then no ongoing trail is inaccurate. Life policies pay trail, and advisers must choose which mix of up front and trail to take. Many are adopting around 100% up front with the 20% trail. This is a sign of professionalism emerging, a longer term focus. It reflects the high cost of acquisition, initial advice and processing, but the higher trail reflects the greater demands of ongoing service. The last thing I want is more government interference. Yes it builds a higher book value, but you now have to do more to earn the trail - however much that is. I blame the aggregation groups and the insurers themselves. They allowed the situation we have now to happen. It's the massive up fronts (well past 220% in some cases), over rides (often hidden) and other crap that has been allowed into the market, all buying business and ticket clipping. Adviser are not blameless, but our first responsibility is to make sure our business is sustainable. Part of the relationship with the client is based on being there in the years to come, when they will need us.
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11 years ago

Ron Flood
Firstly I would like to point out to Michael that "typically most advisers get back twice the annual premium" is a incorrect. Even companies paying 200% do not return this to advisers as they do not pay commission on inflated policy fees. I suggest the following may solve a lot of problems. If you replace cover without an increase in new annual premium, you would get 20% level commission, as earned,for the duration of the contract. There would be no over-ride payments on this business. If you replace business with an increase in annual premium, you would receive 20% level on the old premium amount and then get to choose upfront or level on the balance. Michael's argument is that the high up front commissions is an incentive to replace business. Level commission on replacement my be the answer? Leave the up front commissions as they are with the above framework and this will encourage advisers to chase more new client's, thus reducing the under insurance problem identified.
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11 years ago

Ray Storey
"If all companies had to pay the same upfront and renewal the argument goes surely we would then be more independent" Only if the Greens get in surely. I prefer freedom of choice myself, which should apply to running an insurance company too, without being told what you can pay your suppliers. Anything else is Marxism.
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11 years ago

Ron Flood
Bank Guy. You may be on a salary but do you disclose the incentives received as a result of sales made? And why is it that many of your fellow 'bank guys' replace perfectly good and comprehensive cover with inferior polices with fewer benefits and draconian exclusions. After years of managing advisers it became apparent that those on salaries were mediocre producers, at best. Once incentives were added such as bonuses or soft dollar incentives, their productivity increased dramatically. I would suggest that the banks have discovered this and offer both of the above. Of course, as a QFE employee, disclosures of incentives and soft dollar rewards is not required.
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11 years ago

Daryl McAlinden
Hey Bank Guy, when you introduce new business, the bank gets the commission which funds your salary. I can assure you that if enough clients decide not to place business with you, your salary will cease. Also, do you disclose to your clients the bonuses you will receive if you meet your sales targets?
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11 years ago

Brad Collett
Bank Guy if you believe your advice and your service model is good for the client then good on you, however I'm yet to come across a bank product that is cheaper or more comprehensive than any company I use. In fact many of the DI products are appalling. I love it when I come across a bank client and you tell them that they are going to receive service, the tension just disappears.
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11 years ago

John Makowem
So Bank guy you obviously also disclose that you are encouraged to push one provider over another, regardless of benefit to the client.Keep up the good work!
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11 years ago

Regan Thomas
Bank Guy you are coming across quite arrogant, which is a shame. Or maybe you are having a jolly good time winding people up. That would be a shame too. We all have plenty of opportunity to cater to our respective markets so I don’t understand why people come on here and get all antsy. Many advisers out there have heard the institutional adviser tag lines about salaries and such before. It just doesn’t wash. The sentiment I am reading here is typical of what I have seen from younger, less experienced advisers, who have only their intense in-house ‘training’ and corporate model experience to go on when forming opinions, or from older very mediocre ex-‘agents’ too lazy or close to retirement to bother with ‘that regulation stuff’. Once people get sick of the restrictive corporate model and wander out into adviserland on their own they usually have a kind of ‘awakening’ and realise the difference. Of course only the decent ones will do that, because it’s worth it. Salary jobs suit the mediocre ones much better.
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11 years ago

Ray Storey
Hey Bank Guy, do your customers receive cheaper premiums as a result of you being paid a salary and not a commission? Thought not. A lot in it for them then, on the cost argument. So they pay the same premium, AND they're restricted to one choice of provider. Who's looking after who in that relationship? Geddit?
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11 years ago

Alison Renfrew
Having just come back from Australia and talking about commission structures with a financial planner employed by a major bank my understanding for commissions in Australia is that 100% of the first year's premium is paid as a commission. This is not 25% as Susan Edmunds claims. If only salaried people knew and understood the costs involved both financially and emotionally with being an insurance adviser. It's one of the most challenging professions in the world - next to being a surgeon - because we have to confront our fears and face up to people on a daily basis and many people don't want to do this. It takes courage. Why are we talking about being independent? Definition of independence is being 100% fee based and again Edmunds says people do not want to and do not expect to pay fees for insurance advice. I estimate 99% of risk advisers will never be independent. Finally, while Kiwi advisers may earn relatively high commissions we are one of the most under-insured countries in the world - we need advisers to help the community protect themselves.
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11 years ago

Mike Naylor
It's good to get debate around this issue. A few points; 1) The quotes were taken from far longer conversation, so they are not in context. I have yet to learn the politicians' art of defined sound bites. 2) Independence from providers and commissions are two separate topics. There is a whole other debate on these pages around advisers being tied to a limited number of companies, based on Tony's comments. I see no problem with advisers only using a subset as on-one can know all companies products in enough detail meet regulation requirements. 3) NZ Insurance commissions are way out of line with other countries, who normally have a max of about 100% up-front (They used to be far lower in NZ). High up-front commissions definitely raises the perception from the public that incentives to hard-sell or churn may exist. "Mike" - there has been a lot of articles and comments within the consumer media around this. I don't think that decent advisers are affected by that incentive, but they can't escape the backlash from the perception. The alternative is lower up-front and higher trail - so overall commission is unchanged, but there is income to provide on-going service to clients. Simon Hassan has done some useful calculations, showing the change would be in the interests of advisers. I have yet to speak to an insurance CEO who doesn't think that things should change, especially as it stops their clients being churned. Naomi Ballantyne has been quite outspoken on this. However no one company is prepared to be first to jump, as they are afraid to lose advisers. It's classic catch-22 - its in everyone's interest but no one will do it. More "education" will not work. Its a classic case for the govt to come in and say "maximum up-front is 100%, trail is max 20%" (for example). No-body loses, and firms can compete under the cap. This is what the UK, Australia and the US did, though commission never reached our levels. 4) Fees are a whole other issue. I can see that in investments NZ will sooner rather later follow Aust and ban commissions. Insurance is different as it needs to be sold, but it will be influenced by the ban in the investments area. It would force advisers to explain the clients that their service is actually quite useful. 5)'Boring' - get a life! What's this with personal attacks? I realise that I'm the first academic who has been involved in your industry, and its a shock, but I'm not going away - so get used to me, and play the ball not the man. Talk to me at the next conference.
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11 years ago

Brent Sheather
Perhaps Tony Vidler should limit his web comments to that other website..where anyone critical of his "views" will get censored and then ultimately banned.
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11 years ago

Broker Broker
Unless you've operated as an insurance adviser on commission only for at least a couple of years I don't think you're qualified to comment on commissions...no matter who you are...
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11 years ago

Mike Naylor
Boring - everyone else is debating the issues. Try that. (Shouldn't you change your moniker to 'bored'? 'boring' implies something different.) Read the next article "Churn in Australian watchdog's sights". The FMA will eventually regulate adviser commissions, if only to be in-line with Australia. The only question is - does the NZ industry act proactively to get the regulation it wants or does it wait until the bureaucrats impose their ideas? How do we get industry to do what everyone knows is in their own best interest but they are too scared to do? P.S. Which article was I "rehashing"?
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11 years ago

Andy Phillipson
After reading the article and then the comments - I realised I got more entertainment from the comments afterwards. It also gave me an insight to the types of people we have in our "professional" industry. Clearly there are two avenues available: Income generation, or Long term business sustainability. High initial income and a need to chase new business runs the risk of neglecting existing clients and not building a valuable business, while the latter is a much more sound option that could eliminate unnecessary churning. Obviously there are passionate arguments for each. Personally, I prefer to work smarter, and look after my clients. THAT is where the money is for me.
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11 years ago

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